The Power of Vulnerability: Healing America Through Therapy
Joey B introduces a thought-provoking conversation with Phyllis Levitt, a seasoned psychotherapist and author, who delves into the intricacies of family dynamics and their profound impact on individuals and society at large. The episode highlights her upcoming book, "America in Therapy," which examines the dysfunctional patterns that persist not only within families but also within the broader societal framework, drawing parallels between personal relationships and national discourse.
Phyllis articulates how these patterns often manifest as pain and coping mechanisms, leading to cycles of dysfunction that echo through generations. With a keen focus on the importance of understanding our collective mental health, she emphasizes that the issues we face today are not isolated, but rather reflective of deeper systemic problems. As the discussion unfolds, they explore the necessity of vulnerability, empathy, and the potential for healing, both on an individual level and within the community.
Takeaways:
- In this enlightening episode, the host Joey B. interviews psychotherapist Phyllis Levitt, discussing her upcoming book and insights on family dynamics and mental health.
- Phyllis emphasizes the importance of family systems theory, revealing how our upbringing shapes our responses to life's challenges and interpersonal relationships.
- The discussion highlights that feelings of pain and dysfunction are often rooted in unresolved family issues, which can manifest in various aspects of adult life.
- Phyllis notes that societal issues parallel family dysfunction, suggesting that the political landscape reflects similar patterns of conflict and lack of resolution.
- The conversation delves into vulnerability, revealing how societal expectations discourage open emotional expression, particularly among men, which can hinder personal growth.
- Finally, both speakers agree that understanding and addressing mental health is crucial for individuals and society, advocating for a compassionate approach to healing.
Links referenced in this episode:
Transcript
Well, it's a little bit different this week.
Speaker A:We are utilizing Zoom.
Speaker A:So shout out to the makers of Zoom.
Speaker A:I think they're in Canada or Japan or maybe even Greenland.
Speaker A:I'm not totally sure.
Speaker A:Wherever the hell they are.
Speaker A:Thank you so much.
Speaker A:We do love your E Stream, but we didn't get there.
Speaker A:My name is Joey B. I am the host that I.
Speaker A:Well, yeah, I'm basically the host.
Speaker A:I do the Blind Knowledge podcast.
Speaker A:I've been around for a minute.
Speaker A:I do Blind Knowledge.
Speaker A:Check us out.
Speaker A:We got 26 podcasts, we got live streams, we got digital content.
Speaker A:We can show you how to do it, too.
Speaker A:We can show you our studio in a box.
Speaker A:We got that for you, blindknowledge.com but more importantly, enough from my show, we have a very special guest on.
Speaker A:She's an author.
Speaker A:She seems like a free thinker.
Speaker A:We're going to get to know this woman a little more.
Speaker A:She's got some things to.
Speaker A:To teach us, I think.
Speaker A:Phyllis, welcome to the show.
Speaker B:Thank you so much.
Speaker B:Wonderful to be here.
Speaker A:And I'm glad you're here, too.
Speaker A:So let's get right to it.
Speaker A:You got a brand new book out, right?
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker A:All right, America in Therapy.
Speaker A:What's the book about?
Speaker A:And where did the inspiration come from?
Speaker B:Yeah, and let me just say, it isn't in print yet.
Speaker B:I have a publisher and I'm hoping that it will be out by next spring.
Speaker A:Okay, we got the inside scoop on this.
Speaker B:We got the inside scoop.
Speaker A:That's pretty cool.
Speaker A:So.
Speaker A:So what's going on with this book?
Speaker B:Okay, so I have been a psychotherapist for way over 30 years, and I have so much experience working with what drives people, what hurts people, what helps people, what helps us thrive.
Speaker B:And one of the big contributions of psychotherapy over the last, I don't know, 30, 40 years perhaps, and maybe it's a little longer, is the introduction of the whole idea of family systems and family therapy.
Speaker B:And that was a big, big move in the world of psychotherapy and psychology.
Speaker B:From an.
Speaker B:From a.
Speaker B:Looking.
Speaker B:Looking at an individual as sort of like, what's wrong with them?
Speaker B:What are their complexes?
Speaker B:What are their neuroses, you know, what's wrong with them as an individual.
Speaker B:And the whole idea of family systems theory and family therapy blew that out of the water.
Speaker B:And we've come to understand that we are so much a product of the family systems, that we're a part of that condition us, that teach us what to believe, how to behave, what the role models are for, and women, how you deal with conflict.
Speaker B:The list goes on and on.
Speaker A:Well, I mean, that's where we learn, right?
Speaker A:That's where we learn and grow.
Speaker A:Literally.
Speaker B:Yeah, literally.
Speaker B:And so our family conditioning has a lot to do with who we become in the world and how we cope and how we see the world and what we expect from ourselves and others.
Speaker B:And we also have realized that there's.
Speaker B:The family system is actually bigger than the family that you're born into.
Speaker B:A workplace is a family system.
Speaker B:A place of worship is a family system.
Speaker B:A business, a government agency.
Speaker B:Because we play out the roles that we kind of learned in our family.
Speaker B:You know, one person learns kind of to be the good girl or the rebel or the one who disappears and nobody sees them.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:People kind of slide into roles.
Speaker A:Do you find.
Speaker A:Do you find that happens in all, really, family dynamics?
Speaker B:Yes.
Speaker A:Wow.
Speaker B:Yes.
Speaker B:And part of its nature and part of its nurture and, you know, because I think people do come in with an individual nature.
Speaker B:We're not just a product of our conditioning.
Speaker B:You know, you can have two people in the same family who end up playing very different roles in that family.
Speaker B:And part of that is because of the conditioning in the family, but I think part of that is in our individual nature.
Speaker B:But what we can do something about is nurture.
Speaker B:I may be born, you know, a quieter person or a more outspoken, gregarious person by nature, but I can learn to be respectful of others.
Speaker B:I can learn to have good boundaries.
Speaker A:That's psychology, right?
Speaker A:That's.
Speaker A:That's your inner.
Speaker A:That's your inner.
Speaker A:It's your inner spirit, your inner self.
Speaker A:Learning and.
Speaker A:And teaching and adapting itself how to.
Speaker B:Be better totally, and how to be functional in a world where we have to get along with other people in order to serv.
Speaker B:Survive in some way.
Speaker A:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker A:It comes in handy, that's for sure.
Speaker A:You know, and there's so many of us.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:We're.
Speaker A:We're bound to intertwine and interlink, especially depending on the industry we're in, for sure.
Speaker B:Right, right.
Speaker B:And so, you know, where the book kind of got born was.
Speaker B:Was in a couple.
Speaker B:Sort of from a couple of impulses.
Speaker B:One was, you know, I had so much training in working with children and seeing the effects on them from their family dynamics.
Speaker B:And in.
Speaker B:In my early years of being a psychotherapist, I worked quite a lot with children.
Speaker B:And the vast majority of children that I saw were coming to therapy because they were having symptoms that were a result of conflictual divorce situations among their parents.
Speaker A:This is interesting because I Started therapy as a small child about 4, 5 years old.
Speaker A:When my parents divorced, that's when I started this.
Speaker A:This whole ordeal.
Speaker A:I guess it's a dis.
Speaker A:It's not an ordeal that's negative.
Speaker A:It's like a journey or just.
Speaker A:It's a discovery and I'm still in it.
Speaker A:I.
Speaker A:My mom keeps asking me if I have.
Speaker A:I've gotten a therapist yet lately, and it's.
Speaker A:I know I should because I know how healthy that is for me just to have a third.
Speaker A:Third party to speak to on things and beyond that family dynamic and beyond of what my comfort zone is.
Speaker B:Totally.
Speaker A:Do you see.
Speaker A:Does that happen a lot for other people?
Speaker A:Like, do they come just to, you know.
Speaker A:Let me ask you.
Speaker A:Just that off the cuff.
Speaker A:Like, why do people.
Speaker A:Do they ever tell you why they go to therapy?
Speaker A:Like, why don't.
Speaker B:They always do?
Speaker B:And, you know, that's one of the first questions you ask.
Speaker B:Of course.
Speaker B:And sometimes there's layers underneath what a person might present as the.
Speaker B:As the, you know, originating symptomology or like traumatic.
Speaker A:Like traumatic events or.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:Maybe not being.
Speaker A:I don't know.
Speaker A:I don't know.
Speaker A:I'm not a psychotherapist.
Speaker B:I can share with you.
Speaker B:Such.
Speaker B:There's such a wide variety.
Speaker B:People generally come because they're in pain.
Speaker B:That's the number one motivator for people to find help.
Speaker B:Just like if your body's in pain, you look for a doctor.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:And when your heart and your mind are in pain, you look for.
Speaker B:Hopefully you look for someone who is knowledgeable in how to help you deal with that.
Speaker A:For me, like I said, I've been in this since I was five.
Speaker A:Like, I.
Speaker A:That's.
Speaker A:That's what I know is a way.
Speaker A:It's a healthy way of dealing with certain things so that other consequential things don't occur.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:Exactly.
Speaker B:That's exactly it.
Speaker B:And, and that's.
Speaker B:You pointed out to what, what part of that whole dynamic is that brings a person to therapy.
Speaker B:They're in pain and, you know, relationship isn't working.
Speaker B:They're not getting along with their spouse or their children, or they're having a hard time with their boss or their employees, or they are not happy with their place in their community, or they've, you know, they've failed at a business or, you know, something has motivated them.
Speaker A:But it's pain.
Speaker A:That's the word.
Speaker A:That's the key word here.
Speaker A:Capital P is pain.
Speaker A:And you don't joke.
Speaker A:You don't really.
Speaker A:You don't Joke about.
Speaker A:I mean, pain is a serious word when you break it down.
Speaker A:No one likes to be in pain.
Speaker A:You know, painful is just a terrible way to be.
Speaker A:Do you.
Speaker A:You know, as a professional, would you say you're a therapist as well, not just a psychotherapist or.
Speaker A:Or do people call you a therapist?
Speaker A:Like, what's the correct lingo?
Speaker B:The same thing in my mind.
Speaker A:Is it okay?
Speaker A:Yeah, I just want to be.
Speaker A:I want to make sure I'm on point.
Speaker A:I mean, that's a lot of schooling, too.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:Do you mostly see progression in your field?
Speaker B:Oh, yeah.
Speaker B:If people stick with it and they really want to do the work and they're willing to be.
Speaker B:To have some discomfort.
Speaker B:Not always, but.
Speaker B:But often there's like.
Speaker B:Because here's what I wanted to say.
Speaker B:Like, we have this conditioning, and something about it didn't work.
Speaker B:It gave us a message that we weren't good enough or weren't lovable or we weren't smart enough or we weren't worthy of better treatment or some.
Speaker B:Some negative belief about ourselves got implanted.
Speaker B:And that negative belief generated coping mechanisms.
Speaker B:And some of our coping mechanisms are functional.
Speaker B:You know, we work hard or we try to be nice to other people.
Speaker B:But sometimes there's a downside to the coping mechan, especially if the coping mechanism is to be aggressive and, you know, overpower other people or to never listen to what anybody else says, or to withdraw to a place where you can't take in the love and care of other people or you can't give it.
Speaker B:So the.
Speaker B:What brings people to therapy is a combination of pain and coping mechanisms that aren't working in their adult life.
Speaker B:So they're stuck in this rut.
Speaker B:Like, I'm in a bad relationship and the way I cope is to yell at my partner.
Speaker B:I'm just making this up, you know?
Speaker A:Sure.
Speaker A:Yeah, sure, sure.
Speaker B:And that's not working because I'm not getting the love that I want from my partner.
Speaker B:I'm not getting a happy relationship, but I don't have any other mechanism because I feel like I'm right, and I feel like I have to convince you that you're wrong.
Speaker B:And this is a.
Speaker B:This is one example, as in families, that role model for children, that we're supposed to fight it out until somebody wins.
Speaker B:And what I.
Speaker A:But that's what they were used to.
Speaker A:That's what they know.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:And so then they take that out into their adult relationships.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker A:So that's why those kinds of things happen.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:Wow.
Speaker B:And there's many Many varieties of those dynamics that we model.
Speaker B:And the reason why I wrote my book America in Therapy is because I see those same dysfunctional dynamics happening in the family of America where there's, you know, we.
Speaker B:It's not two spouses fighting.
Speaker B:It's two parties fighting with great hostility and great.
Speaker A:Lot of hostility right now.
Speaker A:A lot of, like, left, right, blue, red, like, I'm right, you're wrong, I want to hurt you because you don't believe in me, you know, or believe what I believe I should say, or because I'm very stubbornness.
Speaker A:A lot of hate, a lot of rage, a lot of scary shit in society, if you don't mind my.
Speaker A:My saying.
Speaker B:What we call dysfunctional family dynamics, and yet they're.
Speaker B:We accept them somehow.
Speaker B:We've been taught, we've been conditioned to accept that this is just the way it is, or somebody's going to win in the end, and hopefully it's my side is going to win.
Speaker B:When we know from family systems that that hurts children, it hurts spouses to be in that kind of dynamic.
Speaker B:They don't come out of it happy, functional people who are easy.
Speaker A:So is this.
Speaker A:Does this go even deeper?
Speaker A:Is this where they go, where kids can go total inner.
Speaker A:And like, I hate to even go in this direction, but you have violence, you have school shootings, you have just bullying to max.
Speaker A:Like, is that where all that stuff comes from?
Speaker A:Or am I just a little off there?
Speaker B:No, I think you're.
Speaker B:I think you're totally on to what I'm talking about.
Speaker B:And what, What I'm saying is it's happening.
Speaker A:That's a huge issue.
Speaker B:It's happening on the individual family level, and it's happening on the national level.
Speaker B:It's happening in large institutions.
Speaker B:And so that's the role model that's out there for so many children.
Speaker B:That there's no.
Speaker B:There's no role model that I see proliferated, let's say, across the media, of how are we going to work this out?
Speaker B:Let's bring the two parties together who's going to mediate the conversation so that we can actually come to some agreement that's healthy.
Speaker B:Good.
Speaker A:That's healthy and normal.
Speaker A:That's.
Speaker A:That's like an intellectual and logical way of handling the situation, I would think.
Speaker B:Right?
Speaker B:So I call the tools of psychotherapy and the principles of good psychology the answer lying hidden in plain sight.
Speaker B:Because we actually do know what works.
Speaker B:And there's also psychological reasons why on the largest levels of society, we're not using those principles.
Speaker B:We're not committed to repair.
Speaker B:We're not committed to the welfare of the entire family of America, which, which means everyone.
Speaker A:Why aren't we, in your opinion, why, why don't we focus on these in depth but very important details?
Speaker A:Why are we okay with just dumbing down?
Speaker B:Yeah, I mean, I think there's many answers to that question.
Speaker B:So I'm not going to pretend that I have them all or that I could even say all the things that I said.
Speaker A:It's a wicked question.
Speaker B:Yeah, but there's a big, there's some big ones and one of them is that.
Speaker B:And, and so I look through the lens of a dysfunctional abusive family when I'm talking about the family of America because the dynamics are exactly the same.
Speaker B:And if we can understand them on the individual level, then we have a better hope of understanding them on the level of large instit with great power and government institutions which have enormous power over the entire population.
Speaker B:And so one of the things that you see in an abusive family is that the abuser has all the power and they don't want to give it up.
Speaker B:There's some gratification for them from having control over everyone, whether it's, you know, they want to sexually abuse someone or they want to take out their rage and beat someone, or they want to control all the finances or they just want to have all the say.
Speaker B:So.
Speaker B:And, and is that a, is that.
Speaker A:A dominant personality or is that a psychopath?
Speaker B:Well, I think one of the points that I try to make in my book is that this is a cycle that needs to be interrupted.
Speaker B:So when I.
Speaker A:There's got to be some rejuvenation, some education for sure, some love and just some like, empathy and love.
Speaker B:Love is the answer.
Speaker B:Love is the answer.
Speaker B:One of the things that I say a lot in my book is that, and this comes straight out of my experience of over 30 years as a psychotherap therapist, all of the injuries that people bring to therapy that cause the greatest pain are injuries to love and belonging there.
Speaker B:It's, it's the ways that we weren't loved, that we didn't feel like we belonged, that we didn't feel valued for who we are, that we didn't feel accepted and we didn't learn peaceful conflict resolution skills that caused the greatest pain in people.
Speaker B:Love is the answer.
Speaker B:And love is not part of political discourse today.
Speaker B:And that is the big missing love and all of its, you know, nuances and all of the dynamics that, that create a loving family environment are not part of Political discourse.
Speaker B:And that's why one of the big reasons why we are in so much trouble.
Speaker A:Hate.
Speaker A:It's easy to weaponize.
Speaker B:Yes.
Speaker A:You know, hate speech is very easy to weaponize.
Speaker A:It's just been happening forever.
Speaker B:You're absolutely right, and that's what's happening.
Speaker A:But let's talk about some other cool stuff that you got.
Speaker A:You got two other books, so we got to let people know.
Speaker A:And I especially want to know what is up with this one.
Speaker A:A Light in the Darkness.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:I wrote that book first.
Speaker B:And.
Speaker B:And actually I wrote that book before I thought I was going to write America in therapy.
Speaker B:So that book is really autobiographical and is my own journey from having been abused in my own childhood.
Speaker B:And the after effects of that, that really pervaded my life in a very, very, very difficult way for many years.
Speaker B:I. I was one.
Speaker B:One person who.
Speaker B:Who didn't remember what happened to me.
Speaker B:I think some of what happened to me happened so early on in life that it was sort of pre.
Speaker B:Verbal and pre memory and.
Speaker B:But it definitely.
Speaker B:Col.
Speaker B:I think many people don't know that.
Speaker B:That what happens early in life has a huge conditioning effect.
Speaker B:We are wired for love and connection, and when that connection is broken and our bodies are hurt or our hearts are hurt, we suffer and we become symptomatic.
Speaker A:And so it doesn't go away.
Speaker A:You're saying it doesn't just roll off.
Speaker A:Damn.
Speaker B:And actually that was one of the other big motivators for writing this book, is that I think a lot of people don't know that it doesn't go away and that they're suffering.
Speaker B:Suffering from things that are not their fault.
Speaker B:They're suffering from things that happen to them that they have a right and we hope can find some healing for rather than what we do as a society is we blame people for their symptoms.
Speaker B:When people become aggressive as a result of being hurt, we blame them.
Speaker B:When they become passive and helpless, we blame them for not standing up.
Speaker B:And when they stand up too strong, we blame them for that.
Speaker B:And when.
Speaker B:When they tell the truth of what really happened in a society that doesn't to hear it.
Speaker B:Just like some families don't want to hear what really happened.
Speaker B:We hurt them and we silence them.
Speaker A:Sometimes nothing's ever right for some people, Phyllis.
Speaker A:Some people are just.
Speaker A:That's just how they function.
Speaker A:Like, which is a really sad way to be and like they should be outliers in society, in my.
Speaker A:My humble opinion, because we're not getting people.
Speaker B:Are you talking about right now?
Speaker A:You know, Just, like, folks that don't want to get better, that don't want to, like, progress and evolve, that are.
Speaker A:That are doing anything terrible that, like, you brought up and.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:Just kind of, like, I don't have a lot of respect for them.
Speaker A:It's hard to have respect for them.
Speaker A:Do you think I should be more empathetic?
Speaker B:Like, one of the biggest challenges that we face today, and it's a big.
Speaker A:Challenge because, like, I'm feeling, you know, if you feel what I'm saying is an example, like, I'm feeling a little bit of, like, negativity towards, like, someone like that.
Speaker A:And I don't even know if I should at this point.
Speaker B:Well, I think.
Speaker B:I don't think it's a matter of should.
Speaker B:I think it's a. I think it may be a matter of us expanding our understanding.
Speaker B:If someone murders another person, you know, they drive into a crowd and they randomly shoot people and they don't even know them, of course we're going to have feelings.
Speaker A:Oh, my God.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:Just confusion, for sure.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:Deep feelings.
Speaker B:But I think as a society, just like as a family, if you have a kid that sets fire to the house.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:It's terrible.
Speaker B:The house burned down.
Speaker A:Right?
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:You also want to say, what happened to that child?
Speaker B:What happened that made them want to do that?
Speaker B:What happened in our families and in our social structure as a whole that made someone want to randomly kill other people?
Speaker B:And why is that accelerating that?
Speaker A:And why is that accelerating?
Speaker A:And, like, why is that, like, a.
Speaker A:Becoming a.
Speaker A:Like a.
Speaker A:Like an award?
Speaker A:It's like you're a.
Speaker A:You're.
Speaker A:You're a famed.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker A:Like, what is.
Speaker A:Like, there's something off there that's not like a regular thing.
Speaker A:There's.
Speaker A:There's something that's got to be added to the dsm, I think, because it's crazy.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:And also, Phyllis, you have one other book, this one I don't have the.
Speaker B:Link to, called into the Fire.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:What's up with this?
Speaker B:That was a continuation of.
Speaker B:Of a Light in the Darkness.
Speaker B:Those are.
Speaker B:Those two books are very autobiographical, and they are really about the spiritual journey that I made in.
Speaker B:As part of my recovery from.
Speaker B:From, you know, what happened to me in my childhood.
Speaker B:That was such a mystery to me, and that had caused me so much pain and so much distress until I began to really uncover what had happened.
Speaker B:And then I had, like, a hope of healing.
Speaker B:I really was on a path of healing.
Speaker B:And part of that was a reclamation of.
Speaker B:I call it a spiritual journey.
Speaker B:I think another way of saying it, because we all have such different ideas of what, of what, what spiritual is, you know, reconnecting to your essential self.
Speaker B:And I would, I would say that.
Speaker B:And I think the best therapy does that too.
Speaker B:I've, I've, I've worked with some people who have.
Speaker A:I hate therapy, but I know I hate it.
Speaker A:I hate having to go.
Speaker A:I don't know why I never look forward to it.
Speaker A:I know it help.
Speaker A:I know it's cool afterwards.
Speaker A:I hate going.
Speaker A:I hate having.
Speaker B:But say more about that because I think that's such a valuable thing to share with people because I, I would.
Speaker A:Rather talk to a random screen on YouTube and just random people that I don't know than, than have to think about what I'm going to say to a therapist in that, in that 40 to 50 minutes of time and how that's going to go.
Speaker A:That's my anxiety just rolling right there.
Speaker B:Do you, do you fear being judged?
Speaker B:Do you fear being vulnerable?
Speaker B:Are you afraid you're going to un.
Speaker B:Something that's going to be uncomfortable?
Speaker A:Yeah, that one.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:I wouldn't think things will become un.
Speaker A:Uncovered.
Speaker A:They can be, Become uncomfortable.
Speaker A:It can be vulnerable.
Speaker A:It can be a very vulnerable moment and to be out of control, you know, in a, In a conversation like that, where emotions kick in because old, old events kick in.
Speaker A:It's, it's, it's like a spiritual experience sometimes.
Speaker A:Sometimes it's like hell, excuse my language.
Speaker A:But sometimes it' just a regular Thursday.
Speaker A:It's, it's hard to explain, but I honestly think everyone should go to therapy because if I got to do it, everyone else should.
Speaker A:No, I'm just kidding.
Speaker A:But it's, it's crazy.
Speaker A:It's always helped.
Speaker A:We'll say that just to talk to somebody different sometimes is even just cool.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:You know, I think, I think vulnerability is a very big issue, especially in our society, because we, we generally sort of like the, the image of someone who's invulnerable, somebody who's got it all and they look fine and they're successful and they know what to do.
Speaker B:And, you know, and, and the truth is most of us aren't really like that.
Speaker A:So true.
Speaker A:So true.
Speaker A:I try to carry myself like that on a live stream for sure.
Speaker A:And I'm.
Speaker A:Dude, I just put this shirt on, you know, like I, or, or, or maybe my head's totally not in the game, but I still have to be in the game.
Speaker A:Like, we're all just, we're all just wounded birds.
Speaker A:It Feels like.
Speaker B:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker B:And so one of the beauties of good therapy, when it is that you can go into those scary places with someone who's not judging you, with someone who has some idea of how to guide you through those places to.
Speaker B:You know, when I said the title of my first book was A Light in the Darkness, I really felt like I lived in a lot of darkness and, and my inner work and my journey and the people that I worked with helped me find, you know, a crack in that darkness and to let some light in.
Speaker B:And the pain that I went through and sometimes therapy was not fun for me as well.
Speaker B:Was so worth it.
Speaker B:It was so worth it.
Speaker B:It's sort of like when you have a splinter, you know, and you don't want to pull it out because you know it's going to hurt, but when you get it out, it's amazing.
Speaker A:It's amazing.
Speaker A:But you got to get that thing out.
Speaker A:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker B:And I feel that for our country.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:And it's like people, some.
Speaker A:Some people say it's not masculine to do that, like.
Speaker A:Or whatever.
Speaker A:Like, I could care less.
Speaker A:Like, I think that's.
Speaker A:It's as alpha as it gets to speak.
Speaker B:Speak.
Speaker A:Speak your piece on something, you know, and to get that, to get that negative or negative or even maybe positive energy out, it's just like, like, so, like, you gotta work out because it gets that sweat out, you know, you gotta have love and affection because that, that works that kind of part of your life and, and your chemicals and, you know, just like heart to heart conversation, I think, is another, like, neuropath.
Speaker A:I really do.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:But you bring up a good point, because I think, I think men, more than women are taught in our culture not to be vulnerable, that it's a sign of, you know, being effeminate or weak or whatever, when in fact, and I can say this unequivocally, it takes tremendous courage and tremendous strength to be vulnerable, to be, to.
Speaker B:To really let yourself be intimate about the not so beautiful parts of yourself or the places where you have pain or the places where you've not been so kind to other people.
Speaker B:We all have that, you know, it's part of our conditioning.
Speaker B:And one of the things that I talk about in my book, because I think it's so important that vulnerability isn't just about the pain that I have suffered because someone didn't love me or they didn't treat me well.
Speaker B:It's also the pain that I suffer at some of the mistakes I made.
Speaker B:You know, some of the things I wish I could go back and do differently.
Speaker B:And if as a country, we could actually embrace that kind of vulnerability and that kind of honesty and say we enslave saved black people and now we're blaming them.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:You know, we tried to destroy the Native Americans.
Speaker B:What effect did we have?
Speaker B:Generation after generation, we still haven't passed the Equal Rights Amendment.
Speaker B:Women are still not entitled to the same salary as men in an equal job.
Speaker B:That is still just outrageous.
Speaker A:That's crazy.
Speaker B:And yet we can't just say, what are we doing?
Speaker B:This is something we're responsible for.
Speaker A:It's almost like it takes someone to bring that up.
Speaker A:Up that.
Speaker A:It's.
Speaker A:It's almost like there has to be someone to actually make that move and.
Speaker A:And jump out of the.
Speaker A:The regular old trough and just make moves and say, hey, what we're doing maybe isn't right, but, you know, sometimes being that person is the hardest person to be.
Speaker A:Even if it's.
Speaker B:There's no question about.
Speaker A:Even if it's the right thing to do.
Speaker B:Well, these are our many martyrs.
Speaker B:Look at the people who have been martyred.
Speaker B:They were standing for love of.
Speaker B:They were standing for humanity.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:John Lennon is the first one I can think of.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:But it goes way deeper than that, for sure.
Speaker A:Do you think that, like, American culture, do you think that there is a.
Speaker A:What you call a crisis right now in mental health?
Speaker B:I do.
Speaker A:How do we.
Speaker A:How do we fix that?
Speaker B:Well, I think we have to understand mental health through a new perspective.
Speaker B:And that's, again, one of the things I try to talk about in my book.
Speaker B:I think we tend to think of mental health as there's that crazy person over there that shot five people, or there's that crazy person over there who robbed a bank or the life savings of an elderly person, or they, you know, they sold poison to people in their food.
Speaker B:And I think, you know, or they're roaming the streets and they're talking to voices of people that aren't there.
Speaker B:And I think we tend to think of mental health as a very extreme end of our psychological functioning, when, in fact, we all have to understand our own mental health.
Speaker B:And one of the reasons why I say this, so I think it's a collective issue.
Speaker B:It's not those people over there are mentally ill. And certainly there are people that are farther along on the spectrum of being out of touch with reality or being severely violent.
Speaker B:But we have to look at our own disconnects.
Speaker B:And one of the ways that I point this out that I think really has meaning for people.
Speaker B:Is that what we vote for and what we allow large institutions like our government to perpetrate, like wars on innocent people or, you know, there's so many things.
Speaker B:Putting children.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:We would never.
Speaker B:In our own lives.
Speaker B:We would never want this in our own lives.
Speaker B:And the disconnect between what we allow as a nation and what we all want and believe is right for ourselves is a sign of a disconnect in our.
Speaker A:I don't, you know, first, I think some people just don't give a.
Speaker A:They just want to live their life.
Speaker A:They just want to be safe and sound and in their bubble and.
Speaker A:And it's kind of hard to hate them for that, you know, or dislike them for that.
Speaker B:Not hate.
Speaker A:Hate.
Speaker A:Hate's the wrong word, but dislike that.
Speaker A:You know, not everyone is going to be the mayor or the community.
Speaker A:I mean, I always have been like, I'm a very volunteer, esque, like person.
Speaker A:I was a baseball coach, coach for years.
Speaker A:I'm very like into giving back.
Speaker A:It's like a Jesuit thing.
Speaker A:You give back to the society.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:And like, you know, some people just aren't like that.
Speaker A:And that's cool.
Speaker A:They're just.
Speaker A:And, and that's.
Speaker A:And I think that's okay, you know.
Speaker B:Well, I think what we have to.
Speaker B:I think the bigger picture around that, if I can say this, is that I think that that passivity comes from a lot of different directions.
Speaker B:Some people.
Speaker B:And I.
Speaker B:Because I hear people say this sometime, just given up.
Speaker B:They just don't think there's anything that they can do except take care of their own.
Speaker A:So that's interesting.
Speaker A:So they feel they can't do anything to actually make better, make good or make things happen.
Speaker A:They.
Speaker A:They feel hopeless.
Speaker B:They feel hopeless.
Speaker A:I didn't think of that at that perspective.
Speaker B:And I also think that there's.
Speaker B:So that's one perspective and I think that's a big.
Speaker A:That's a shitty place to be, fellas.
Speaker A:Yeah, it's a rough place.
Speaker B:And I think our society, the way it's going is breeding that because the more people feel overp, the more they feel like there's no justice for, you know, the person at the bottom of the totem pole.
Speaker B:The more they feel that the legal system is unfair to masses of people, for instance, or that opportunity is withheld from masses of people, or that the, that the income differential is beyond, you know, repair.
Speaker B:People start to feel like there's nothing they can do.
Speaker A:What happened to the middle class?
Speaker A:Like, what happened to my money?
Speaker A:Like everyone's Money.
Speaker A:No one has any.
Speaker A:Like, no one has any money.
Speaker A:The only people that do are wicked rich or they're the influencers doing content stuff.
Speaker B:So these are.
Speaker A:These are bankers.
Speaker A:Basically.
Speaker B:Poor mental health.
Speaker B:In a country when.
Speaker B:When some people have all the power and all the resources and many, many, many.
Speaker A:Well, they call it inflation.
Speaker A:And this is a little off topic, but they call it inflation.
Speaker A:I. I think they're screwing with the percentage points and they.
Speaker A:They're.
Speaker A:They're cutting everyone's credit and they're making the dollar worthless.
Speaker A:US towards crypto, which is a wild thing to think about, but that's way down the line.
Speaker A:Fellas, we only have 3 minutes and 15 seconds left, so I just want to get to what we got to get to.
Speaker A:Did you ever go to, like, Woodstock?
Speaker A:I gotta ask.
Speaker B:I did not go to Woodstock.
Speaker A:Did not go to Woodstock.
Speaker B:Part of that generation, but I wasn't out there.
Speaker A:Let me get a couple favorite bands from you.
Speaker A:What.
Speaker A:What are some favorite bands of yours?
Speaker B:Oh, gosh, you're asking the wrong person.
Speaker B:I.
Speaker B:You know, from the.
Speaker B:From the older generation.
Speaker B:I love the Beatles.
Speaker B:Okay.
Speaker A:Okay.
Speaker A:All right.
Speaker A:That's.
Speaker A:That's the big boy right there.
Speaker A:That's the Beatles.
Speaker A:They're awesome.
Speaker A:All right, Phyllis.
Speaker A:And it's weird that we have a countdown here, so I'm gonna be.
Speaker A:Just give you as much time as possible.
Speaker A:What's.
Speaker A:What's some info you could drop on some people in the audience right now about you and what people should know about.
Speaker A:About you?
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:Well, I would just love people to go to my website, Phyllis levitt.com and sign in for my newsletter so that I can keep you informed about exactly when my book is going to be released.
Speaker B:It should be next spring.
Speaker A:Very cool.
Speaker B:I would love to be able to tell people when the book is available.
Speaker B:And I'm on YouTube and LinkedIn and Instagram and Twitter and Facebook and all those things.
Speaker A:All right, your handle is basically your name, right?
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:Phyllis Levitt.
Speaker B:P H Y L L I S. All right.
Speaker A:All right.
Speaker A:Well, we did it, Phyllis.
Speaker A:We did the interview.
Speaker B:We did it.
Speaker A:It's.
Speaker A:It's a big round of applause for everyone in the zoom here.
Speaker A:All right, thank you for joining me so much, and thank y' all for watching.
Speaker A:Definitely stick around for the next one and definitely go check out that plus y', all and go sign up.
Speaker A:Make sure you get those alerts at, fellas.
Speaker A:Love.
Speaker A:I'm Joey B.
Speaker A:This is the Blind Knowledge podcast.
Speaker A:We love you.
Speaker A:Peace.
